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VE5CPU
#1 Posted : Monday, March 15, 2021 12:28:44 PM(UTC)
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Hi all

I just purchased and installed the K1EL WKmini (Ver 31.2) device (https://hamcrafters2.com/WKmini.html). The device installed just fine, its own software finds the device, and the test program works fine. I have tried to use it with Logic using the Winkeyer Form. Logic sees it on Com 2, I get an initialization message from the Winkeyer Form that says "Winkey version 85 ready".

When I try a test message from the Compose Tab and then click the Send button, the rig keys and is held key down.

The WKmini is a simpler interface than the Winkeyer without some of the external features. The USB interface is based on the FTDI controller chip.

I have tested the same setup with Writelog (V12) and it works fine using their Winkey setup.

Any ideas on why this might not work?

Config: Windows 10 (Ver 19041) and Logic 9 (Ver. 9.21.2)
Radio: FT1000MP Mark V Field

Bart
Bart Ritchie - VE5CPU
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WN4AZY
#2 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2021 10:32:32 AM(UTC)
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Hi Bart:

Sorry for the problem. Not sure what is going on.

Does the TUNE button in LOGic work?

The original WinKeyer used DTR for powering the unit, so of course LOGic turns it on. Maybe that tells WKMini to key the transmitter.

Here is their documentation:
https://www.k1elsystems....s/WKminiManual_v1.3.pdf
I can't find any reference to DTR, although I see some verbage about PTT.

I emailed them asking for help. If my guess is right it will be a simple fix.

Tnx for using LOGic.

73,

Dennis WN4AZY
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WN4AZY
#3 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2021 2:31:28 PM(UTC)
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Steve K1EL replied promptly. He says:

Quote:
Dennis, RTS and DTR are ignored so it doesn’t matter how they are set. It sounds like it might be a cable problem. Or maybe disable the PTT output?
Ok, since it works with WriteLog, we can assume the cable is good.

When Steve says "disable PTT output", is that something you can do in configuration?

I send 0x18 0x00 upon initialization to turn the PTT off, but never touch it again. I am not seeing where I am sending anything special when you click Transmit in the compose tab.

If you send TEST or whatever from the Compose tab, does it key the whole time it should be sending TEST then release automatically, or does it stay stuck in key-down?

Does the LIVE mode work?

Also, I am not seeing any commands in the above-referenced documentation. I guess they are on his site somewhere. Perhaps the commands have changed.
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VE5CPU
#4 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2021 7:58:40 PM(UTC)
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Hi Denis

I am using the provided cables from K1EL for the WKmini. As noted, it is working with Writelog V12.x and it works with the K1EL test software as well. The computer sees the WKmini as Com 2 and Logic gets a message from the WKmin when in the Winkeyer Form setup menu - the message is "Winkey version 85 ready".

When I select the Winkey form/interface in Logic 9 and use it with either the Live Keyboard or Compose Logic keys the interface/radio in a key down state until the end of the transmission. It then releases to the unkeyed state.

If I quick click the Tune button, it triggers the interface/radio for about a second. If I press and hold the Tune button it triggers the interface/radio for the duration I hold down the Tune button.

The default "setup" of WKmin does not have the "PTT enabled". I can't imbed a screenshot in the forum, but I can email it to you if that will be of some assistance. Their user manual shows the default settings on page 6 of their PDF manual (link in your first replay).

The WinKeyer 3.1 IC Datasheet is here: https://www.k1elsystems..../WK3_Datasheet_v1.3.pdf I think that will have the kind of info you are looking for.

Let me know if there is anything else I can test.

Bart - VE5CPU
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VE5CPU
#5 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2021 9:52:58 PM(UTC)
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Hi Dennis

I did a little more playing around with WKmini. Using their test software if I turn on the PTT setting in their software and then send a test macro, I get the same behaviour as in Logic 9.

I wonder if as part of your initialisation if you are setting the PTT on?

The documentation link I referenced in the prior note shows PTT control as:

PTT On/Off <18><nn> nn = 01 PTT on, n = 00 PTT off
This command allows the PTT output to be used for a custom purpose. The command is operational only when PTT is disabled (see PINCFG command on page 9). PTT can be turned on or off at will and is not affected by transmit or any other command including Clear Buffer. Typical applications could be a power level control, antenna selector, or to turn on a cooling fan. Since this is a buffered command, the change in PTT will happen at the command’s position in the buffer and remain in effect until the next PTT ON/OFF command is encountered. This command will not stall the output buffer.

That may give you a clue as to the behaviour I am seeing.
Bart Ritchie - VE5CPU
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WN4AZY
#6 Posted : Thursday, March 18, 2021 9:37:09 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
If I quick click the Tune button, it triggers the interface/radio for about a second. If I press and hold the Tune button it triggers the interface/radio for the duration I hold down the Tune button.
This is normal behavior.

Quote:
I wonder if as part of your initialization if you are setting the PTT on?
No. I am turning it off. <18><0>. But only on initialization after I open the port. I am not doing anything before transmitting the Compose or Live content.

I am thinking it is not a PTT issue. Even if PTT were asserted all the time, that is not the same as key-down.

He must have changed the commands or something. I will look at your referenced documentation and post later. I will also look into devising a test using our loopback tester.

Tnx & 73,

Dennis WN4AZY
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VE5CPU on 3/18/2021(UTC)
WN4AZY
#7 Posted : Friday, March 19, 2021 8:11:08 AM(UTC)
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FYI I sent this to Steve yesterday, and am waiting to hear back.

Tnx & 73,

Dennis WN4AZY

Quote:
Hi Steve:

Thanks for your prompt response.

The cabling is OK as you can see from the link to the discussion I provided.
http://hosenose.com/Foru...L-WKmini--Ver-31-2.aspx

It seems that any attempt to send characters to WinKeyer results in key-down for the duration of the transmission. I no longer believe it has anything to do with PTT. Even if PTT were asserted, that is not the same as key-down.

My winkeyer is version 9. What breaking changes have occurred since then?

In reading https://www.k1elsystems..../WK3_Datasheet_v1.3.pdf I see that it now has a host mode and a standalone mode. It defaults to standalone mode. Do I need to send a host mode on command on startup?

Do you have the source code or pseudocode for a minimal program to send CQ with Winkeyer?

Thanks & 73,

Dennis WN4AZY
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WN4AZY
#8 Posted : Sunday, March 21, 2021 9:01:36 PM(UTC)
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Here is Steve's reply:

Quote:
PTT is asserted for the entire length of the transmission, key is asserted only during dits and dahs. Sounds
to me like PTT is keying the radio. There really is no other way it can happen.

WKmini uses a 1/8 inch phone plug with key on tip and PTT on ring. When you configure a radio to run
with any WK, you first disable the radio's internal keyer and set it up for straight key mode.

Unless you specifically turn PTT off by WK command, the ring will carry the PTT signal. Many current radios
do not want to see any signal on the ring connection, I suspect that the radio is interpreting the ring assertion
to be a secondary keying input and it is or'ed with the tip connection.

In the WK PINCFG register, Bit 0 controls the operation of PTT. When bit is high, PTT is used, when it's low
is not.

WKUSB is easier to deal with since PTT is a separate output and you can choose to not hook it up. With WKmini,
PTT is bonded to KEY in the same cable and connector. The only two ways to remove PTT is to cut the wire in
the connector (if you can even get at it) or disable PTT.


Let me see if I can figure out how to set that PINCFG register.

Another option is to make an 1/8" extension cable, to go between the Winkey Mini and the rig, and not hook up the ring.

Here is an image clarifying which connector is the ring.

http://img.tfd.com/cde/TRRS.GIF
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VE5CPU
#9 Posted : Sunday, March 21, 2021 9:35:42 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the update Dennis.

The test program provided by K1EL works as expected with the provided cables, so they must be making some config settings when they open the port. That software is available on their site, so maybe you could see what commands are set if your loop back test program can see that data (https://www.k1elsystems.com/WK3demo.html).

I hope the setting for WK PINCFG does the trick. It would be nice to use the same cabling between multiple programs. Worse case is I can build a custom cable, but if it works with Writelog so I assume it can be controlled by configuration setting.

I have the internal keyer turned off in the radio. I have always used an external keyer in parallel to the computer / software driven interfaces for CW keying.

Thanks for your support efforts.

Regards
Bart - VE5CPU
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WN4AZY
#10 Posted : Monday, March 22, 2021 8:09:30 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
The test program provided by K1EL works as expected with the provided cables, so they must be making some config settings when they open the port. That software is available on their site, so maybe you could see what commands are set if your loop back test program can see that data (https://www.k1elsystems.com/WK3demo.html).
I don't see any source code for that.

I am trying to find the default values for all the bits in PINCFG. There apparently is no way to read the current value.

73,

DH
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VE5CPU
#11 Posted : Monday, March 22, 2021 6:57:43 PM(UTC)
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Hi Dennis

I don't know if this will help, but one of the software authors doing a Unix/Linux implement of a keyer has source code up on Github. Based on looking at some of the material it supports both the V2 and V3 IC in Winkeyer products.

https://github.com/N0NB/winkeydaemon

I don't see that K1EL is sharing any of the code for his testing programs.

Regards
Bart - VE5CPU
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VE5CPU
#12 Posted : Monday, March 22, 2021 7:15:49 PM(UTC)
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Hi Dennis

I found a link to a document that does a comparison between the different versions of the Winkey IC. Hope this might help.

https://www.k1elsystems.com/files/WK3_Changes.pdf

PS: that document has this on PINCFG... the bits seem to be the same assignments across all 3 versions.

PINCFG
7 DITPRI: Ultim Dit priority
6 DAHPRI: Ultim Dah priority
5 HANG1: PTT hang
4 HANG0: adjustment
3 KEYPORT0: Use Key port 0
2 KEYPORT1: Use Key port 1
1 USETONE: Sidetone on
0 USEPTT: PTT on
Bart Ritchie - VE5CPU
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VE5CPU
#13 Posted : Monday, March 22, 2021 7:30:00 PM(UTC)
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Hi Dennis

I found this application guide for version 2... can't find the same for version 3. There is some pseudocode example, looks like it is mostly initialization.

https://www.k1elsystems..../files/WK2_SW_Guide.pdf

and an errata sheet for V2 after some updates

https://www.k1elsystems..../Winkey2ErrataSheet.pdf

Bart Ritchie - VE5CPU
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WN4AZY
#14 Posted : Tuesday, March 23, 2021 4:44:13 PM(UTC)
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Hi--

I'll take a look at the Linux source. That should be useful. Thanks!

Quote:
PS: that document has this on PINCFG... the bits seem to be the same assignments across all 3 versions.

PINCFG
7 DITPRI: Ultim Dit priority
6 DAHPRI: Ultim Dah priority
5 HANG1: PTT hang
4 HANG0: adjustment
3 KEYPORT0: Use Key port 0
2 KEYPORT1: Use Key port 1
1 USETONE: Sidetone on
0 USEPTT: PTT on


I know the pin assignments. What I need is the default value of each pin-- UseTone, Keyport1, Keyport0, etc. I asked Steve, and he conformed that USEPTT defaults to 1 (on). He wouldn't tell me what the other defaults are. He said I need to provide a setup dialog. I can do that, but as a test. Also, even with a dialog, I need to default the options to something. Most users aren't going to have a clue what all that stuff does.

Do you have any software that allows you to set the above options? In particular, I think Keyport0 and Keyport1 must be set properly for it to work.


Quote:
The host is in charge of setting the entire pincfg byte based on user’s preference. All of the settings in that register should be sourced from a WK setup dialog that the user has control over. For example some users want PTT on others don’t, same with port selection, sidetone enable, letterspace... The host app shouldn’t make hardcoded decisions on any of those, they have to be set according to what the user wants.

When the host closes WK, standalone settings are restored so you don’t need to worry about that part. For that reason there isn’t a direct way to read back the pincfg register. It’s up to the host to set it and then keep a copy of it for modification purposes.

Steve K1EL


Tnx & 73,

DH
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VE5CPU
#15 Posted : Tuesday, March 23, 2021 7:34:14 PM(UTC)
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Hi Dennis

Quote:

Do you have any software that allows you to set the above options? In particular, I think Keyport0 and Keyport1 must be set properly for it to work.


I will check, but I don't think so... will see if some of my older test software will work on Windows 10

Bart


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WN4AZY on 3/23/2021(UTC)
VE5CPU
#16 Posted : Thursday, March 25, 2021 11:51:13 AM(UTC)
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Hi Dennis

Nothing I have that tests serial ports works with a USB device that appears as a serial port. Most of my stuff is older testing and loop-back stuff from the days of real UART-based serial ports.

I have played with K1EL's testing software to set the variables shown in his "Configuration" (page 6 of the user manual) and the only item that makes an obvious change to the behaviour of the MKmini is when I check on the "Enable PTT". AS noted previously, when I check that box, it keys the radio in a key down state for the duration of the CW transmission of the test phrase.



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WN4AZY on 3/25/2021(UTC)
WN4AZY
#17 Posted : Thursday, March 25, 2021 1:05:37 PM(UTC)
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Ok, thanks! That page 6 is probably the defaults. I see that it is set to PORT 1, Sidetone on. I will do the same.

Your test proves that PTT is the problem.

Stay tuned!

Tnx & 73,

Dennis WN4AZY
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WN4AZY
#18 Posted : Thursday, April 8, 2021 2:24:52 PM(UTC)
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Ok, please try the new 9.21.3 update.

Tnx & 73,

Dennis WN4AZY
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VE5CPU
#19 Posted : Thursday, April 8, 2021 9:11:06 PM(UTC)
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Hi Dennis

That did the trick. WKMini works fine now. Thanks very much for your help with this!
Bart Ritchie - VE5CPU
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WN4AZY
#20 Posted : Friday, April 9, 2021 8:35:40 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for YOUR help!
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